Dio vs Ozzy | The Official Ozzy Osbourne Site

Dio vs Ozzy

theres no doubt, Dio is a better singer. even to this day, his voice still sounds as strong as it did 30 years ago. of course Ozzy's 'good' voice gave out by the mid 90s...not intending that his voice was bad. Ozzy's unique way of singing from soft to heavy and singing to the same tune of Iommi's riffs put him on a higher level than any other sabbath singer. still, you listen to Children of The Sea, and you can't ignore the fact that Dio was the best choice, not only to fill Oz's shoes, but to replace him.who was the best Sabbath singer?

Replies

<strong>where...hailfax replied:</strong></cite> Yea, Iommi did call the shots, ect ect…..</cite>

Look I am sure that Iommi may have done things differently with Dio, but I don’t think Ozzy and Iommi’s past relationship played all that big of a part in how Iommi choose to play guitar. As for Dio loving lots of guitars, well that’s great, but the same can be as easily said of Osbourne. Ozzy while with Sabbath did not hog the songs and fill them entirely with vocals, per beat, per measure of music; in fact old Sabbath is filled with astounding guitar solos, and riffs, minus any vocals for large periods of time throughout the song. And as for Ozzy solo, he has had some of the most world famous guitarist play for him, and all of them got to show their stuff, so I think its safe to say Ozzy is not as insecure enough as to bully, or mandate how much guitar time, solo time any given guitar play may have, or not have on his albums. Once again am just confused as all hell on this even being a real issue for Iommi, just confused by that statement in general.

Scapegoat said: but if Ozzy is/was so incapable of writing lyrics, or contributing with a co-writer.

<strong>where...hailfax replied:</strong></cite> Nobody said that.</cite>

Look it is brought up here, time & time again that Ozzy has either allowed a fellow band member, or collaborated with another member on the lyrics for his songs. So I was responding to OzzyJohn on that comment. And here is what I am getting at, and maybe it will slow down so many people throwing that fact out there as if it has any real merit. I think it’s safe to say Elvis Presley was the king of rock-n-roll, that his career was incredible, and that his celebrity status goes beyond any that were doing it in his day, all the way up to present day, he is beyond legend. So with that said its no secret that Elvis wrote very few of his own actual songs, most of his library of music was written by someone else or he did covers. Now my point is this, how is it that Ozzy should be viewed any differently, why should his accomplishments be any less in anyone’s eyes? They shouldn’t, Ozzy has not only a unique voice, but an incredible amount of charisma, & stage presence more so than any front man dead, or alive. It just makes my ass tired that people throw that out there as if it has any real significance with him being a great vocalist/singer, like his vocals aren’t enough to make him the rock god he is today, that he must lack talent, or is inferior to those that do write their own material. So if you don’t look at him as any less for having out side help, or co-writers, then why the f*** is it even brought up? This also confuses the s*** right out of me, am I alone???

Continued.............

Ozzy is the god of rock ozzy is better than anyone i agree with goat ozzy osbourne is better than dio not that i dont respect him

OZZY

ETERNAL

GOD OF ROCK

love in hate hate in love

True enough he has it down to a fine art! lol

--
Peace

Scape

<strong>Ozzy:</strong><cite>"I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy (Rhoads) from getting on that plane." (Ozzy Osbourne, Guitar World Issue 37, 2000)
</cite>

It is pretty impossible to compare the vocalists that have been in Sabbath, just listen on the tracks of the albums, yet i have not found any tracks that i dont like and i have been hearing these songs since i born. But my personal opinion is that Tony Martin was the best and my favorite singer in Black Sabbath, I just have to look at the Eternal Idol album and it feels that i have been eating ecstasy all of my life... try that :)

--
Stay High

Not angry at all my friend, and I would be flattered if you use my technique, it helps me to keep my rebuttals straight when I am writing them out, as well as when I am proof reading. Also I am sorry if you think I am angry, and sorry if that’s what you’re picking up on, if it’s because I use profanity from time to time, well I apologize but that’s how I roll in real life, and if we was to be seated together one on one I would speak to you in the same manner. Of course then you would understand that I am not angry, because you could hear the tone of my voice and pick up on that fact all on your own. So rest assured, this is a friendly debate, and I am always up to a friendly argument, via my responding to your original post.

Listen I love Iommi, and all the original guys of Sabbath, and as I stated earlier, no one member is solely responsible for the success of Black Sabbath. As for Iommi’s statements that Dio allows him a greater freedom to play guitar, or that he inspires him, I can buy into that to a certain point, but as a fellow guitar player, a lot of the inspiration comes from deep down inside, so Dio may have lite a flame under Iommi’s ass to go for it with a little bit more gusto, especially with his obvious concerns whether long time fans would welcome Dio into the fold, but to say that Ozzy was some kind of hindrance on his guitar time, work, whatever, is kind of a full of s*** statement, and maybe I am taking it out of context, and maybe if I was to actually hear the interview I would understand a bit better, I don’t know??

<strong>where...hailfax replied:</strong></cite> I don’t see what that is supposed to mean. Are you saying Dio and Iommi are not on good terms with Ozzy these days??? I don't get it...</cite>

I know they are on good terms, but each has his own recollection of how things went, and the drug haze that they were all in back then doesn’t help make ones memory all so clear, so what I am saying is Iommi may see things a certain way, as to where others that were there may see it another. And it’s all well and good for Iommi to say how he felt way back then, or what he was thinking at the time, but as time goes by you tend to believe in things that aren’t always 100% built on actual fact, time tends to romanticize things a bit if you get my point. And that goes for all of them, including Mr. Ozzy Osbourne.

Since I have started this discussion/debate with you I couldn’t help but think about it a little more, and I really don’t get Iommi’s statement, or let’s say I am confused by it at the very least. Why? Because one of the major fundamental factors of me loving my Sabbath as much as I did/do wasn’t just purely the vocals of Ozzy Osbourne, it was also due to those long, deep ass instrumentals that Iommi would do on almost every album, and every song. In other words it didn’t get boring, because Iommi would change the direction of the song multiple times through out its duration, via it not getting tiresome, or repetitive. So I personally don’t understand how Iommi could say working with Ozzy, Dio, whomever, had that profound of an effect on how he played, or how he constructed his songs. As for maybe inspiring him by it being new and fresh, thus exciting him, making it easier for him to come up with riffs he was happy with, maybe thats the case, who really knows? Again we could debate this forever, because neither one of us are Iommi, Dio, or Osbourne. I hope you see a little more clearly where it is that I am shooting from, and I am not being mean, just trying not to be bias myself here, if you get what I mean?

Continued.............

Dio gave Sabbath a fresh new sound after the decline of Ozzy!! Oooh man I can't wait for the new Heaven and Hell album this year...

"I love that little dwarf, he is definitely one of a kind. I remember the first time I seen him I thought damn that boy looks like an elf, so when I found out that was the name of the first band he was in I about laughed my ass off, just to funny for words!" lmfao lol hahahahaaaaa f***ing brilliant, you my friend have a gift

sorry to get off topic, kinda, but I had to comment

--
Old rockers come and go, but not Oldman Double O

its not impossible to choose a favourtie as you just did. are you telling me that The Eternal Idol or Headless Cross are better albums than...say...Paraoid or Heaven and Hell? i admit he might be a good singer but he just sounds off when hes in Sabbath

Woah...that was a lot. My bad..I was picking up on anger, but you've proven me wrong!

I only have time to respond to two of your comments that I feel most important:

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong><cite> Now my point is this, how is it that Ozzy should be viewed any differently, why should his accomplishments be any less in anyone’s eyes? They shouldn’t, Ozzy has not only a unique voice, but an incredible amount of charisma, & stage presence more so than any front man dead, or alive. It just makes my ass tired that people throw that out there as if it has any real significance with him being a great vocalist/singer, like his vocals aren’t enough to make him the rock god he is today, that he must lack talent, or is inferior to those that do write their own material.</cite>

I didn't mean to imply that just because Ozzy wasn't the lyricist, it would take away from him overall as an artist, nor would I ever think that. Earlier, I was merely pointing out how you compared Dio's lyrics to Ozzy's lyrics, when clearly, Geezer was the lyricist. And it had nothing to do with saying that Ozzy had less talent cause he wasn't a writer. But of course, Ozzy has written his share throughout his career.

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong><cite> If you love them both equally, well that’s great for you, you've lost absolutely nothing, but you’re a minority as you might suspect, most prefer Osbourne as opposed to Dio, and that’s just an actual fact.</cite>

I agree. Unlike you, I didn't get to live those early years. At first, I was into Ozzy, and when I found the link between him and Black Sabbath, jesus f***..it blew my mind. So, I was a fan of solo Ozzy and Sabbath Ozzy. And because I was into his solo stuff longer, when I found out there were other singers after he left Sabbath, I just dismissed them for years because I was loyal to Ozzy. Out of curiosity, I just kept playing the Dio era to see how he was, even though I had heard it before. Suddenly I became addicted, not only to his vocals, but I had a better appreciation for Tony and the band as well. I find that as each year passes, Dio's fan base grows, escpecially with the recent Heaven and Hell tour and more people are becoming aware of not only Ozzy, but Dio too. Just my opinion...

Honestly, I don't like Tony Martin as a singer for Sabbath, just like you and Dio. But I do listen to his era often, mostly because of Tony Iommi. Personally, I could care less how terrible a singer is (to an extent), but I listen to the band as a whole because original members are still in the band, of which I am a fan. Oops, didn't mean Martin is a bad singer, just not right for the Sabs.

If you're wondering who I prefer, no doubt it's Ozzy, but Ronnie James Dio comes up right behind his ass.

Sorry for my lack of response...I'm pretty tired right now, plus my brain isn't swimming with that many thoughts. I do know what you're saying throughout, and you have maybe changed my perspective on things, but not entirely.

And here's an off topic question. Have you seen Ozzy yet for this tour? If you have, how was he? If you haven't, I'll tell you next month when I see him!! hahah

Well, I'm out. Good night for now and if I'm not here tomorrow, Merry Christmas.

yeah gotta admit, I did like "live evil"
Dio is good, very f***in good, but still he ain't no Ozzy
Can't beat the Ozzman

f*** he's an ugly little c*** too, looks like he came from the a**hole of hell itself
Poor little basturd. lmfao lol

Rock on

--
Old rockers come and go, but not Oldman Double O

He is one to see live

I am, and always will be an Ozzy fan first & foremost!

I enjoyed Dio after Ozzy was fired, let go, but it was never the same vibe, at least not for me anyway. When Dio joined Sabbath the whole sound of the band changed, & it wasn’t just the vocals mind you, Iommi had evolved in his guitar playing, and he managed to even get heavier than what he had thrown at Ozzy in years past when they were still working together. Now that by no way means that what Iommi had done before wasn’t heavy as all s***, but due to better equipment, and much better recording studios, added with the fresh vocal styles of Dio, well heaven and hell was one mean ass album for back in its day, and some of it manages to live up very well to today’s standards, or so I believe.

The thing with Dio, whether it’s with Rainbow, Sabbath, or especially solo, the lyrics for me can get a bit wee bit to cheesy, and as time has gone by, some of the lyrics are just way to beyond f***in corny for me to handle, or to take seriously. The whole in the dark of the dark, and the night of the night s***, drives me absolutely crazy, in fact I almost hate it. I love Dio’s career in a nostalgic sense these days, it makes me smile when I hear it, but I don’t go out of my way to listen to any of it anymore. In other words my peeps I don’t own very much, if any Dio these days. As for Ozzy I own it all, or at least a majority of what he has done.

As for Ozzy getting cheesy with some of his lyrics, well he has went and done so in the later days of his career, or so I tend to think. But as for the Sabbath library with Ozzy, it still holds up as well today, no better today than it did when it was all new, and fresh. Sabbath during the Ozzy years is almost untouchable, it has everything you need to go by to build a band of your own, so in other words Sabbath wrote the blueprint for how real heavy music should be made. As for Dio being credited with that, I personally don’t think so. I agree Dio was a huge persona back in the day, but he didn’t pioneer s***, nor did he do anything all that original. As with Ozzy and the boys of Sabbath, they set the standard, & paved the way for all the metal bands that came after. So take a look at heavy music/metal, and ask yourself how many Dio clones your going to find, as in comparson to how many Ozzy clones you will undoubtedly find.

As for Dio’s voice holding up with age, the answer is yes of course it has, now does it change anything for me other than Ozzy’s shows being a little sad to see these days, the answer is no!

Ozzy’s is still the man and that will never change in my eyes. Ozzy’s music is superior to most that have attempted to mimic it, or try their hand at it. Ozzy and the boys of Sabbath are not just another metal band, they are thee metal band of all f***in time, the alpha & the omega! So in my book, even as cool as Dio was an all back in the day, its my humble opinion that Dio was just another one of many that rode on the Black Sabbath coat tail, as are many of the newer bands guilty of doing to this very day!

Just my 2 cents worth!

Peace all!

--
<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

<strong>Halfex said:</strong><cite> I didn't mean to imply that just because Ozzy wasn't the lyricist, it would take away from him overall as an artist, nor would I ever think that. .</cite>

I realize that you personally never really made that assumption/statement, but all to often people will manage to mention that trivial fact as if it is somehow a discredit to Ozzy, and many times in the past when it has been brought up, well it inadvertently only manages to come off as kind of a backhanded compliment. To me unless mentioning that fact has any real bearing on the conversation at hand, or is a vital part of the thread, then why even mention it in the first place??? I feel at times it is indeed justified, but at other times, well its just unnecessary if you ask me.

<strong>Halfex said:</strong><cite> I agree. Unlike you, I didn't get to live those early years. At first, I was into Ozzy, and when I found the link between him and Black Sabbath, jesus f***..it blew my mind. Ect, ect...........</cite>

<cite>Honestly, I don't like Tony Martin as a singer for Sabbath, just like you and Dio. But I do listen to his era often, mostly because of Tony Iommi. Personally, I could care less how terrible a singer is (to an extent), but I listen to the band as a whole because original members are still in the band, of which I am a fan. Oops, didn't mean Martin is a bad singer, just not right for the Sabs.</cite>

I understand your position with how, and in what chronicle order you discovered Ozzy’s music playing a factor into what you think of the later incarnations of Black Sabbath. For me I discovered Ozzy while he was still with Sabbath, and sadly not to long after I had discovered him, and the whole Sabbath thing, he was fired/replaced with Dio. And like I said I bought those albums with Dio, and I was happy with them in the sense that the band was carrying on, but when Dio bailed, I jumped ship for good. OzzyJohn has mentioned many times that I should go back and give Tony Martin another whirl, which I did here awhile back, but as usual as soon as the vocals start I just crumble, and as always it comes down to the fact that I just cant handle it enough to look past it, and within a few short choruses I find myself shutting it completely off. Maybe if you could subtract the vocals entirely I could sit through the great guitar work an all, in fact I am sure I would enjoy the music portion of those songs, but the vocals are way to 80’s out for me, cheesy, and juvenile for me in the end. Sorry OzzyJohn, but you’re a better man than me when it comes to doing all that s***, lmao….

For me its strange when it comes to vocals, there are artists that I listen to & love that most people would pass on because of the whole growling thing, as for me I enjoy it, of course when it really works in conjunction to what the band is doing. But if a band is going to have a traditional vocalist, well then they really have to offer something, either new, or unique in order for me to tune completely in. And I am not saying perfect, just that it has character, and stands out among the competition that’s out there. A vocalist doesn’t have to be perfect in the sense that they can sing any jondra, or any style, just that it has character, and sincerity, for example Les Claypool doesn’t have the ideal vocal sound, and his music is as silly as hell, but it works within the perimeters of his band, and even though it seems light hearted lyrically at times, very often there is a heavier message to be found within. As to some of the old school vocals like, Tony Martin, Dio, or an Axl Rose, that style of vocals has become dated to me, and is now being proven true with the fact that the younger generation is now mimicking it, and finding it cool. As my parents said, about every couple of generations things tend to make a full circle. Since I hated most metal music in the 80’s, this happening with the new generation of bands is not a real pleasurable occurrence for me, and one that I pray will be short to endure lol! So when you say that Dio’s fan base is growing, it is my belief this may be partly the reason as to why.

As to your question of my seeing Ozzy on this latest tour, well I have not seen Ozzy since Ozzfest here in St. Louis, and as for seeing the new tour with Zombie, well it isn't coming. If I want to catch one of those shows the closest venue for me is almost 4 hours away, talk about a complete bummer, trust me it is!!

And ya let me know how my boy sounds, looks, always curious about all that.

I really miss the old fart, I wish that club show was coming here, considering I pitched a fit, asked for this very thing to happen, posted a request for it in the ozzfest portion of the forums as far back as June, titled "Dear Ozzy please read". Now I get a club tour, but it’s a hella trip for me to make in order to do so, it seems I just can’t win! lmao!

PS" Have any of you heard the band Killswitch Engage version of Dio’s "Holy Diver"???? Not to shabby, but I think I prefer the original version,of course!

Throwing my devil horns into the air \m/

Peace

Scape

oh my god onmysix! hahahhah!
"looks like he came from the a**hole of hell itself."
that was good! im like pissing my pants laughing!!
lmfao! hahahhhh!!

--
The more I see, The less I know.
The more I like to let it go.
[snow : RHCP] :)

Thanks onmysix, thank you!

Happy my comments on "The Dio" made ya laugh, happy you understood I meant it in the best of terms. I love those old Dio albums, solo as well as when he did his Sabbath spell; he is positively one of our most cherished metal gods, just a peg or two right below our beloved Ozzman!

Or so I think anyway!

Never have seen "The Dio" live doom, I would love to, I think I will have to make that a priority in the up coming year or so.

Peace

Scape

<strong>Ozzy:</strong><cite>"I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy (Rhoads) from getting on that plane." (Ozzy Osbourne, Guitar World Issue 37, 2000)
</cite>

When I need a crunchy and groovy tune, the Ozzy era has it no doubt. I usually seek it out when I'm stoned.
When I feel like singing (in some cases screaming) I go for the Dio-era and Born Again.
And for killer metal from a very tight, top notch band in every aspect, its the Martin, Hughes, and Ray Gillen stuff that'll get me going.

--
Tony Iommi = God, his arch angels are Ozzy Osbourne, Dave Walker, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Dave Donato, Glenn Hughes, Ray Gillen, Tony Martin, and Bill Ward (bassically everyone who sang on a song labeled Black Sabbath)

I dig...

"If I want to catch one of those shows the closest venue for me is almost 4 hours away, talk about a complete bummer, trust me it is!!"

Yea, it is a bummer. I have to travel 5 hours by bus, plus the costs of the floor tickets and the Ozzfan membership. It cost a s*** load but it's worth it.

No I'm not familiar with Killswitch Engage. And if I think I remember them correctly, I think they suck?? lol. Still, I've gotta hear that song.

Wow...show a little respect to the man that helped shape metal, not to mention the all too common devil horns. I think Dio looks f***ing amazing, and I'm glad he's no Mick Jagger.

I prefur Ozzys vocie!
100%.. Theres just something magic in his voice..
It makes me smile and cry..
But I do love Rainbow very much!
Dio is a good singer!! xo

--
I WANT OZZY, ZAKKY AND MIKEY... hehe.. xo

See now for me when I go to sing, if I want melody and range I do an Ozzy tune, and when I want to scream I do old AC/DC with Bon Scott, or maybe a little Nazareth, yup that gets the old pipes ah goin!

lol

--
<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

Oops my bad. Hand_of_Doom = where...halifax

i f***ing love Dio! i didnt mean it like that. i just love how onmysix gets on these rampages and has the weirdest damn insults you ever heard.

--
The more I see, The less I know.
The more I like to let it go.
[snow : RHCP] :)

First off, when Dio came into Sabbath, he didn't try to be like Ozzy and that set him apart and gave them their new sound. Also your comment about lyrics...personally, I do like his lyrics (at least with Sabbath). But you can't compare his lyrics to the Ozzy era...considering Geezer Butler wrote most of it. What if Ozzy was the lyricist? Would Sabbath be as famous as they are now? Since Dio joined, he also gave room for Iommi to breathe with his solos and show off his true skill. And you cant ignore the fact that his monstrous, powerful vocals can easily match Iommi's new "heavier riffs"

As for your comment:
"<em>As with Ozzy and the boys of Sabbath, they set the standard, & paved the way for all the metal bands that came after. So take a look at heavy music/metal, and ask yourself how many Dio clones your going to find, as in comparson to how many Ozzy clones you will undoubtedly find.</em>"

Sure, Dio may not have been a pioneer to heavy metal, but he did help pave the way. Maybe there are more Dio "clones" because his voice had a bigger influence on newer bands than Ozzy did (or maybe because nobody could match Ozzy's voice...who knows right?}.

I'm not trying to say Dio was better than Ozzy, but I'm just stating the facts about Dio, that he is one of rocks greatest singers, and he can easily compare to Ozzy.

where...halifax = Hand_of_Doom.
I'm gonna stick with my old account.

Same here I love the Dio, in fact I was just watching some interviews with him a few days ago about his days with Sabbath, and his first solo album, I respect him, admire him, only thing is I don't put him on the same pedestal as Ozzy, never have, never will, sorry just how I personally feel, but to each his own guys, to each his own.

And as for the devil horns thing, not that I don't give credit to the Dio, but Gene Simmons did that thing way back in the 70's, or at least a variation of it anyway, maybe even before Dio did it I believe, I mean I am not sure on that 100%, considering Dio was in Elf as far back as 1967, so if Ronnie was doing the devil thing even then, then he is the originator of that little signature move with the devil horns, if not then perhaps Gene was, if anyone has any further info I am curious to know who had their hand at it first, no pun intended, let me know??????????

Later!

Scape

<strong>Ozzy:</strong><cite>"I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy (Rhoads) from getting on that plane." (Ozzy Osbourne, Guitar World Issue 37, 2000)
</cite>

I never said Dio acted like Ozzy, nor did I say he ever attempted to sound like Ozzy, so I am sorry if that’s what you got from my statements.

As for Dio’s lyrics, they have always been full of lyrics that talk about satanism/evil, the darkness, the moon, the evil of the night, earthy elements, and lots, & lots of that good ole spooky ass boo s***! The most popular rainbow song of Dio’s was “man on a silver mountain”, again with the earthly elements and corny ass lyrics. And as for Geezer writing the majority of the lyrics, I don’t buy that 100%, and in the end all got credit for those songs, Osbourne, Butler, Iommi, & Ward alike, via Black Sabbath!

For your theory, if Ozzy had wrote all of the lyrics while he was in Sabbath, would they have been as famous as they are now, well my only rebuttal is of course they would have been. Ozzy has always had a huge creative input into whatever he’s done, not so much musically, but when it comes to melody, and words I believe Ozzy held his own in Sabbath, and to think other wise is simply bulls***. I think the words that came from Sabbath where a collaboration on every member’s part, not one person is solely responsible for Sabbath working; it took all four of them!

I don’t think Dio’, or anyone’s vocals allows, or prevents a guitar player from strutting his, or her s***. Song structure is still song structure, the guy you by chance have singing doesn’t always add, or take away from that fundamental fact. So if you’re under the belief that Iommi did more guitar work, solo work because of Dio’s singing style, thus allowing Iommi to do more within the band, well that is just showing prejudice on your part.

Maybe you should ask yourself this question instead, and that is maybe Iommi did more solo work, better guitar work because he didn’t have Ozzy the front man to help carry the load anymore, via inspiring Iommi to put out some of his best work ever in order to compensate for that fact, or at the least save a little face for throwing Ozzy out of the band?

Dio is cool, I enjoy hearing him when I do, its just he isn’t my boy Ozzy, and when it comes to a front man, there is more than just sheer talent that can make or break a band on this fact alone. Try charisma, originality, creativity, these things a singer must have, and when a band loses that element it sometimes means the end for that band.

In Sabbaths case they went on and yes they were successful, but hands down it’s not the Dio Sabbath years that most will recognize, it’s the Ozzy & Black Sabbath years that everyone truly remembers as being the true incarnation of this band , as well it should be!

As for Dio paving the way, I say yes he did in a way, he carried the torch as well for many years, but he is no Ozzy, in my opinion not even in the same league. I will give Dio his due, yes he was a part of the heavy music scene, yes he coined a few of his own trademarks, and yes he had, and still has a very unique vocal style, but even given all that, he isn’t even close to being a Ozzy Osbourne, a Bill Ward, a Tony Iommi, or a Geezer Butler, never have I put him on a pedestal that high, nor will I ever.

If you love, enjoy Dio then that’s great, to each his own I say, its just that this old metal head loves the original lineup the best, I did back in the day, & its still true of me now.

Sabbath created heavy metal music, they also created a whole new jondra, and for that I will always be in awe of them, and I will always give them the credit due to them for doing just that very thing!

For me in order to love heavy music, or modern metal, one must always rememebr the Sabbath!

peace all!

--
<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

I hear ya on killswitch, they are just one of the many new metal bands I don't really go for, but the remake of Holy Diver is a hoot, look up the video on youtube, its beyond cheeseriffic!

Peace

ScApeGoAt

<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

Dio can be one of the greatest singers of all time and of course his voice is the same 30 years ago. But he is not the fu++ing princ of darkness that OZZY was during the 80s, 90s, and present day. The ozzman can pull you out the insanity within any time with his songs any time he wants. Dio rocks but Ozzy rules!

PS: OZZY Argentina is waiting for you. Trust me...there is nothing like an argentinian fuc++ng wild public!

Here we go in circles again. It's your opinion of Dio's lyrics. Some people like them, some people don't, and clearly you don't, but there are many people that do. Following up on my statement of Geezer being the lyricist, proof is everywhere. Have you ever read Sabbath books written by the roadies? Have you seen or read interviews? Why not just buy "Black Sabbath: The Last Supper" and get your proof right there right from their mouths. I'm not saying Geezer wrote 100%, but he did a large portion, including switching from Earth to Black Sabbath.

With Ozzy writing the lyrics, would they be famous? I would have to agree with you too, but nobody knows for sure. It's just opinion as usual.

Sorry if you misunderstood me too...I meant that when Dio was in the band, he gave Iommi the opportunity to play more, and I do have proof from straight from Dio's mouth (which does not show prejudice on my part). Have you seen the new Heaven and Hell live DVD? If not, I suggest you go buy it, go to the special features and listen to what Iommi/Dio had to say. Take these for example:
"Tony loved to have to come up to a musical standard, so did Geezer." - Dio
"...these open him up to show what a great guitar player he is, and to give himself a space to go to that makes him proud as well." - Dio
"Ronnie likes a lot of guitar, so it's great for me. I can get back into playing solos again." - Tony Iommi
if you don't believe me, feel free to go buy it or watch it if you have it..?

Ozzy the frontman wasn't there to carry the load anymore? Iommi knew Dio and they talked even before Ozzy left. By the time he left, Dio was in the band quickly, and Iommi did know that his bands direction would change prior.
Yea, I do agree that Ozzy does have a better stage presence, even to this day. So that does add to Ozzy's qualities and uniqeness.
Of course people favour Ozzy over Dio, which is a shame in my opinion. I think they both have so much to offer and I think that Dio is unrrated only because he wasn't the in the original Sabbath.

Dio a better singer?....LMFAO!!! dude, you cannot compare ozzy to dio.. i stopped listening to Sabbath after ozzy left because of dio. have you ever heard dio sing paranoid? it's f***ing hysterical... DIo is not the (self proclaimed) "king of rock and roll." i totally disagree with you on this issue...there is no comparison.

Gene credits himself from one album cover though. Ever see him use it at a concert during that time? Further more his explanation of why he uses it is of the way he holds his pick:
http://www.spectorbass.com/images/artists/GeneSimmonsBlue_lrg.jpg
don't look that way to me :)

Dio gives his history about where he first saw (his Italian grandma) it and why he began to use it everywhere, that being because Ozzy always gave the peace sign and he wanted to do something different from that. From the logic of both these gentlemen I gotta give it to Dio.

But SG, why would you put anything on a pedestal? Didn't you see 40 year old Virgin? Nothing should be placed there...LMAO...

--
Tony Iommi = God, his arch angels are Ozzy Osbourne, Dave Walker, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Dave Donato, Glenn Hughes, Ray Gillen, Tony Martin, and Bill Ward (bassically everyone who sang on a song labeled Black Sabbath)

Well sorry you don't like Dio's lyrics SG. I find that no matter that he uses similar themes in his lyrics from song to song most are very unique and has their own message. Dio also is a master of subtle metaphors.

I see no reason for not believing that Geezer wrote 98% of the lyrics. Now that Ozzy has gotten off his high horse, he will even tell you he's not much of a lyricist. It was Geezer, not Ozzy, who went through every Sabbath song and recorded the lyrics for the book in the Black Box. The reason they all get credits is because they all contributed to the SONGS, not the lyrics.

--
Tony Iommi = God, his arch angels are Ozzy Osbourne, Dave Walker, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Dave Donato, Glenn Hughes, Ray Gillen, Tony Martin, and Bill Ward (bassically everyone who sang on a song labeled Black Sabbath)

<strong>where...hailfax said:</strong><cite> Sorry if you misunderstood me too...I meant that when Dio was in the band, he gave Iommi the opportunity to play more, and I do have proof from straight from Dio's mouth (which does not show prejudice on my part). </cite>

Well that’s kind of rich wouldn’t ya say, it coming straight from Dio’s mouth, whatever; friend, opinions are like a**holes, we each have one I suppose. And once again for you to swallow that load of bulls*** from these guys all these years after the fact of Ozzy being fired from Sabbath, again shows a bias point of view on your part, no offence taken please.

<strong>where...hailfax said:</strong><cite> Have you seen the new Heaven and Hell live DVD?</cite>

No, again really not all that interested, curiosity maybe, but that’s about it.

<strong>where...hailfax said:</strong><cite> If not, I suggest you go buy it, go to the special features and listen to what Iommi/Dio had to say.

Take these for example:
"Tony loved to have to come up to a musical standard, so did Geezer." - Dio
"...these open him up to show what a great guitar player he is, and to give himself a space to go to that makes him proud as well." - Dio
"Ronnie likes a lot of guitar, so it's great for me. I can get back into playing solos again." - Tony Iommi
if you don't believe me, feel free to go buy it or watch it if you have it..?</cite>

Well that’s also pretty rich of Iommi to say as well, considering he always called the majority of the shots within the band, and if having more solo time, or playing whatever it was he wanted to express through the guitar had something to do with Ozzy as a vocalist, or saying Ozzy was some kind of hindrance to him as a guitar player is a load of s***, sorry but I call it like I see it.

<strong>where...hailfax said:</strong><cite> Ozzy the front man wasn't there to carry the load anymore? Iommi knew Dio and they talked even before Ozzy left. By the time he left, Dio was in the band quickly, and Iommi did know that his bands direction would change prior.</cite>

I am fully aware of all that my friend, and I was there during those days, and followed those events as they unfolded, I don’t need any book by any roadie, not that it wouldn’t be a good read maybe, but most of Sabbaths history I am pretty aware of just by simply living it, again sorry if I come off as an a**hole, but in most instances what you read isn’t always necessarily the 100% truth of things, or exactly how they may have unfolded, on this you should trust me.

<strong>where...hailfax said:</strong><cite> Yea, I do agree that Ozzy does have a better stage presence, even to this day. So that does add to Ozzy's qualities and uniqueness. Of course people favor Ozzy over Dio, which is a shame in my opinion. I think they both have so much to offer and I think that Dio is underrated only because he wasn't the in the original Sabbath.</cite>

I agree with you 100% on all that, my only thing is Dio isn’t Ozzy, no more than Ozzy is a John Lennon, and so on. All I want understood is that to even compare them together in the first place is kind of ridiculous, and I wish that Dio had never sang for Sabbath, because if that had been the case Dio may have went a whole lot further in his career, and yes sadly he is only remembered by a lot of people as the guy who was hired to replace Ozzy.

Before I sign off, please understand this, I bought all those albums, including Dio’s solo years, and I loved them all, and I had a blast listening to them, but in the end I simply out grew it, as for Ozzy with Sabbath, or solo, that is something in which I will never out grow, for Christ sake he’s a living f***in legend, nuff said I would think????

--
<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

Dio made some good songs with Sabbath like "Heaven and Hell", but Ozzy was the greatest singer Sabbath ever had. Period.

Dio is great but I think that Ozzy is greater.
You cant beat Ozzy. You just cant.

--
im running fast but getting nowhere.
i see the light but i never get there.
~nightmare~

well I love ya bro, and I agree with you to a point OzzyJohn, but if Ozzy is/was so incapable of writing lyrics, or contributing with a co-writer, then how do you explain this so called flaw as being some kind of hinderance to his career, because not to be a dick, but Ozzy out weighs most artists when it comes to his career, and that includes kicking Dio's ass as well.

Some of Dio's lyrics are awesome, in other words when he hits a home run its outta the park, but when he doesnt, it can really stink up the joint is all I'm going to say. Again its a matter of taste, and what your willing to over look, for me Dio is part of my adolesance, I left him behind. Now that doesnt mean I dont like the man, or I dont recognize his achevments, it just means basiclly I out grew Ronnie James dio..

For those of you that still get that rush, well by all means have at it, but for me I see it as my childhoods past, no more, an no less.

Peace all!

--
<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

Have you failed to read what's been going on here? You are right though about them sticking with their own material. I couldn't see Ozzy performing The Mob Rules either, and I'm sure you would laugh at that too... The reason Dio was performing the Oz era is because he was a replacement in the original Sabbath name...For fans..people who are not obsessed with Ozzy that they will ignore everything after he left and talk s*** about Dio for no apparent reason other than "Ozzy is better." At least back up your statement if your gonna say something stupid like that.

That's like saying if Zakk Wylde left Ozzy today, nobody would be allowed to replace him, therefor, Ozzy should retire. Same deal goes for Sabbath years ago. Oz, Dio and/or Sabbath fans don't want that, do they?

Maybe not you, but Freddie Mercury sure could, and IMO Glenn Hughes (Deep Purple/Black Sabbath/Iommi) can destroy him. Glenn's got a very unique and distinct voice, a big range, and if you hear some of his vocal solos (if you dare to go to one of his shows) you'll be stunned. But those guys aren't very metal. But Rob Halford or Tim Owens are f***ing insane too. Ozzy is great but he is one among a sea of great vocalists out there.

--
Tony Iommi = God, his arch angels are Ozzy Osbourne, Dave Walker, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Dave Donato, Glenn Hughes, Ray Gillen, Tony Martin, and Bill Ward (bassically everyone who sang on a song labeled Black Sabbath)

I would say, and imagine Ozzy would agree somewhat, that Ozzy's success is from the people that surround him, as is the case with others that surrounded themselves with Ozzy. There is a reason Ozzy's first solo stint in the 70s failed, success didn't materialize. Thats not to say Ozzy isn't talented. His ability to create the melodies he does over the bone crushing heaviness of Tony, Randy, Jake, and Zakk is dumbfounding. $haron has also played a MAJOR part in Ozzy's success.

If I were you I'd get out Heaven And Hell & The Mob Rules and give 'em a spin.

--
Tony Iommi = God, his arch angels are Ozzy Osbourne, Dave Walker, Ronnie James Dio, Ian Gillan, Dave Donato, Glenn Hughes, Ray Gillen, Tony Martin, and Bill Ward (bassically everyone who sang on a song labeled Black Sabbath)

Point taken Doom, I agree with that analogy.

--
Peace

ScApeGoAt

<cite>"Being sober on a bus is, like, totally different than being drunk on a bus."</cite> - <strong>Ozzy Osbourne</strong>

OJ I was also aware of Dio and the grandmother thing, I was just not sure when he first introduced it to the over all public, if he was doing it with Elf, or did he start doing it when he joined Sabbath, thats where I am uncertain about the whole devil horn thing when it comes to Dio. As for Gene the first memory I have of him doing it I believe is in one of the alive 1 pictures in or on back of the album, not the cover because as you described Gene had his hand in an odd position, but I like you wouldn't call it the devil horns. Its whacked out because I know Gene flashed it around an all, but for the life of me I cant remember when he started doing so. No matter who did it first I will give Ronnie the most due for making it so popular, Ronnie threw that s*** up in the air about fifty times a second, lmao, again I love that little dwarf, he is definitely one of a kind. I remember the first time I seen him I thought damn that boy looks like an elf, so when I found out that was the name of the first band he was in I about laughed my ass off, just to funny for words!

--
Peace

Scape

<strong>Ozzy:</strong><cite>"I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy (Rhoads) from getting on that plane." (Ozzy Osbourne, Guitar World Issue 37, 2000)
</cite>

You seem pretty angry buddy. Sorry...I would consider this a friendly debate. I hope you don't mind if I use your technique.

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong> <cite>And once again for you to swallow that load of bulls*** from these guys all these years after the fact of Ozzy being fired from Sabbath, again shows a bias point of view on your part, no offence taken please</cite>

I dont see what that is supposed to mean. Are you saying Dio and Iommi are not on good terms with Ozzy these days??? I don't get it...

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong> <cite> Well that’s also pretty rich of Iommi to say, considering he always called the majority of the shots within the band, and if having more solo time, or playing whatever it was he wanted to express through the guitar had something to do with Ozzy as a vocalist, or saying Ozzy was some kind of hindrance to him as a guitar player is a load of s***, sorry but I call it like I see it.</cite>

Yea, Iommi did call the shots. To be honest, I don't know what to say here...by the time Ozzy left and Dio joined, somehow Tony's playing was more energentic, refreshed and different. I don't know why that is. <cite>"Ronnie likes a lot of guitar, so it's great for me. I can get back into playing solos again.".</cite> By that statement alone, I'm under the impression that Ozzy did have an influence on his playing...but yes I know that's a stupid thing to think. Maybe his playing was to accommodate Dio's lyrics or vocals...I don't know man.

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong> <cite> but if Ozzy is/was so incapable of writing lyrics, or contributing with a co-writer</cite>

Nobody said that.

<strong>Scapegoat said:</strong> <cite>I wish that Dio had never sang for Sabbath, because if that had been the case Dio may have went a whole lot further in his career.</cite>

He did go further in his career, with the Sabs.

You seem to be living in the past and relying on your experiences 30+ years ago to back up your statements, which, I might add, is how you "call it like you see it." Seeing as how Black Sabbath said a lot of this stuff, against your word, I think it's pretty obvious who's side I'm going to take.

It's not ridiculous to compare the two knowing that they both have so many qualities. I can easily listen to Ozzy or Dio all day. You can't ignore the fact that just because Dio wasn't the original, that his voice had no place in the Black Sabbath name. It sounds like your a fan of only Ozzy and not the band. Tony, Geezer, (Bill) were still in Sabbath once Ozzy left, but why mostly follow Ozzy's career and not the rest of the band? Because there's a new singer or the lyrics or the vocals or Tony's playing? I know I'm gonna get nailed for that comment...Not to you, but to me, everything recorded with Dio was just as strong as with Ozzy.

Yea Ozzy is a living legend. And so is Dio. btw thank you for fixing my sloppy typing in the last paragraph.

Ozzy is a one of creators of "Black Sabbath" and I think, what he is "the true BS vocalist". Dio is an excellent musician, but Ozzy is 1-st!!! As Vince Neil at "Motley Crue"))

--
Screaming at the window... (c) Ozzy

Ozzyjohn.... those people are very amazing. But they arent Ozzy and they wont be. And in my mind they will never compare! haha. Through all the bulls*** I have gone through Ozzy has been there. I listen to him every day. He and his music are just such a big part of my life that nothing else measures up. Think what you wish but I know that Ozzy totally kicks anyones ass! =)

--
im running fast but getting nowhere.
i see the light but i never get there.
~nightmare~